Why there are 75% more landscape companies than 20 years ago
Jack: There are 75% more landscape companies than there were 20 years ago. So you’re approaching year 10, and there are a number of people who have been in it for 20, 30, 40 years. And even those people who have been at it for 20 years, that have an established brand, have 75% more competitors than they did 20 years ago.
The “law of the harvest” and long-term marketing ROI
Jeff: Marketing is kind of like the law of the harvest. You have to plant the seed, and then you don’t harvest it right away. That harvest happens over the next two, three, four years.
Jack: I think sometimes people are like, “Oh, well, we don’t need to do marketing because we do a good job.” And I’m always like, “No — you need to do both. You need to do an incredible job for people, earn reviews, ask for them, and invest in marketing.”
Setting the scene: Dallas project + video shoot
Jack: Hey everyone — we are here at an epic landscape installation in Dallas, Texas, and I just finished a video shoot with Ramblin Jackson client Jeff Riddle from Alterra Landscape Design. This is, I think, our third video shoot together.
Jeff: Yeah.
Jack: And it was fun coming here in September.
Jeff: More fun this time.
Jack: Why was it more fun for you?
Jeff: I was such a novice last time and so uncomfortable. I got used to it, but it was still sort of like having a wisdom tooth removed.
Jack: The other thing is you were in the videos the least this time, right?
Jeff: By design.
Jack: So you’ve grown your staff. You have Tyler and Hayden, who are principals in the company, and so they were in the videos for the most part. The other thing is we brought the teleprompter. So how was doing the teleprompter?
Using a teleprompter to speed up video production
Jeff: Teleprompter was much easier. You’ve got to be careful that it doesn’t sound scripted and read, but as far as the experience, it’s just much easier. Because you can get those important things down and you don’t forget them.
The way we used to do it before, you’d have to look down at the script, memorize a line, look into the camera, and do it. And that was brutal. That would take 40 minutes to do what we get done in sometimes five or ten.
Jack: And we got to enjoy some landscapes. So tell us a little bit about this yard we’re in. You designed this one, right?
The backyard project: small pool, turf, and design approach
Jeff: Yes. This was a typical North Dallas neighborhood — terrible old 50-year-old backyard, mud and old grass, little bitty patio. Not user-friendly for this young family that moved here. They have two little girls, and it was a very unfriendly space the way we found it.
Jack: I interviewed Mac, and he was talking about how it was all concrete, right? Was there concrete even back here?
Jeff: Yeah. The driveway came from the street down the side and then wrapped around back here. So it was basically concrete and mud.
Jack: So you put in a small pool with a hot tub.
Jeff: Yeah. This is a backyard with everything you’d want. It’s got a small cocktail pool — we call them purpose-built pools, where we look at your mission for the backyard and design the pool around that.
It’s a smaller pool. He wanted it closer to the house. It’s got a hot tub and a little tanning ledge — perfect for a small family and a smaller backyard. Then artificial turf, very nice pool decking, and barrier trees around the perimeter. These trees will eventually grow up and create an intimate space right in the middle of Dallas.
Jack: Mac was telling me how much he enjoys all those plants and all the wildlife they brought — birds, bees, rabbits, all different kinds of things.
Jeff: It’s amazing how much wildlife is in these old neighborhoods in Dallas. Some of it desirable, some not.
Jack: He was telling the story of the coyotes.
Jeff: Coyotes. Yeah. Coyotes, feral cats, rabbits, and rats battle it out. Coyotes are at the top of the food chain.
But they have a lot of butterflies. They’ll eventually get little screech owls in these junipers. Little bunnies sneak under the fence and nibble on the perennials, and these little girls love it.
Jack: And right now we’re under this huge umbrella with incredible rotation and tilt dexterity. Great for the video shoot — two testimonials and now the podcast — because there are zero clouds today.
Jeff: Hot, sunny day. I’m amazed how much cooler it is under here.
Jack: This is a 13-foot cantilevered umbrella by Treasure Garden. It swivels 360 degrees and tilts at all kinds of angles. You can block out the sun as it moves during the day, and swivel it to shade the pool and keep the water cooler. It’s a great thing to have in a small backyard like this, especially in Texas.
The current landscape market: feels like a downturn, but is it?
Jack: One of the things we wanted to chat about was the market — the market and marketing.
Jeff: We’re in an interesting time. We’re through the COVID rush for landscaping and outdoor living spaces. We’re back to normal volume of work, which right now feels to everybody like we’re in a downturn — but in reality we’re probably back to what’s typically normal. Maybe a little below that.
Jack: I think a little lower.
Jeff: It depends where you are. Here in Texas, I’m not seeing it as much. One macroeconomic component is population change, and Texas continues to grow. I interviewed one of your clients today and they moved here from Canada. A lot of people are moving from California too, but also other places. States with net population increases typically have increased demand for landscape, because people bring equity and want an awesome front yard or backyard.
I’m seeing more of a downturn in the Northeast — New Jersey and New York in particular. It seems more normal-ish in Colorado.
Jack: So it’s a function of demand and how many firms can fill that demand.
Jeff: Right. With people moving in has come other firms moving in. The number of outdoor living firms in DFW has gone up with population. So when we have a dip, you have the same number of firms chasing a little bit less work. It feels like a downturn, but the market is still very healthy.
Rising competition in DFW & national market trends
Jack: Competition is important. I presented at the Texas Nursery Landscape Association earlier this year, and there are 75% more landscape companies than there were 20 years ago. So you’re approaching year 10, and there are people who’ve been in it for 20, 30, 40 years. Even those people with established brands have 75% more competitors than they did 20 years ago.
Jeff: So we’re seeing leads go down generally, and that produces some anxiety — even though we can’t service all the leads we have. Watching leads drop creates anxiety. We’ve had people calling us looking for jobs who have been laid off from other firms. That makes it hard to keep your foot on the gas with marketing.
But we haven’t taken our foot off the gas of our marketing budget. We had already planned a new website at the end of this year so we can launch it early 2026. We discussed whether we should make that investment right now, and we decided to go ahead. I think it was wise — although it creates anxiety when the market softens and you’re spending this much on marketing.
Jack: I know you have thoughts about that. I’m thinking back four or five years ago — when did we do the interview on your front porch?
Jeff: Probably about then.
Jack: We had a similar conversation. You said you suspected there would be a downturn.
Jeff: I’ve been suspecting a downturn for at least 10 years.
Jack: We met in 2018 and you had that conversation. It’s brave to talk about it because people don’t want to admit it. But the truth is most business owners have that fear or anxiety. And at that time, you said you should be marketing through it — and you’ve done that. You increased. You’re spending more this year on marketing than ever before.
Harvesting results from past marketing efforts
Jack: What’s happening this year?
Jeff: We’re having a very good year. We’re reaping the harvest of past efforts and expenses with marketing. Because marketing is like the law of the harvest: you have to plant the seed, and you don’t harvest it right away. That harvest happens over the next two, three, four years.
I love your analogy of the Tree of Good Fortune. That tree has to be planted, has to grow, and then it starts to produce fruit. So we’re harvesting right now from our past investment.
And we’re looking forward to the transition from me to the younger guys. In the next 10 years, we’ll be harvesting from this investment.
Jack: I like your participation in the Tree of Good Fortune. You’ve invested with us — we planted it, we’re nurturing it. We’re redesigning your website. It was a great website, but 2018 was a long time ago. Our design skills and capabilities have grown, and so have yours.
I’ve spent the last three days with your customers in person. It’s not only the marketing. You guys take incredible care of your customers. I’m doing marketing and interviews, but I’m listening to them. All of them mentioned your website, reviews, and photos — and they also mentioned you took incredible care of them.
It’s not like people can say, “We don’t need marketing because we do a good job.” No — you need both: do an incredible job, earn reviews, ask for them, and invest in marketing.
Because when people only invest in marketing but they’re not good at what they do — or they’re missing the photos and the reviews — it doesn’t work. That’s why I created the Tree of Good Fortune. It’s like a garden — there are many components to it.
Jeff: We’ve seen it work. Meeting you in 2018, the visual was powerful. We do what we do — take care of customers. We show up when we say we will. We’re on time — the little things that make a big difference. You guys do what you do. Put it together and it’s been great.
The current website has generated a lot of revenue for us over the last five years and it still is. It’s getting dated — which is why we’re updating it — but it still performs.
We’re updating it for lots of reasons, one of which is this AI thing that’s come into play. We were not talking about AI in 2018 at all.
How AI and search are changing (and what’s overhyped)
Jack: Before we pressed record, we were talking about Y2K — the doomsday stuff. I spend a lot of time reading articles, studies, case studies, market trends, and I think the AI hype is way over-marketed. I think it’s fear-mongering. Fear sells.
There is truth that people are using AI. But I read that Google searches have increased despite the growth of ChatGPT. A lot of people say, “Everyone’s using ChatGPT instead of Google to search for businesses,” and there’s no data to support that. ChatGPT use is growing, and Google search is growing.
Jeff: We’ve had interesting discussions about that. We’re being told there’s a cataclysmic shift in search — keywords, algorithms, all that. You guys are helping us navigate it and say maybe it’s not as big a deal as we think.
Jack: I think it is changing. I personally hired a remodeler that I found on ChatGPT for a major construction project. I also Googled them, looked at their website, photos, and reviews — but I got to them first in ChatGPT.
We have clients who’ve said, “We found you with an AI search.” So it is happening. But it’s important for people to know: a lot of what you need to do to show up in AI searches is SEO. Your website is a source of information, and AI tools extract information from it. They extract from Facebook reviews, Google Business Profile, your website, video, short-form video, social media — all of these things influence it.
Why deep content helps companies win in AI-driven search
Jeff: Which only helps companies like us — or firms like us — because we have deep content. And we can go even deeper because we really do have good, rich, deep content.
Jack: And you’re helping us capture even more. One thing I love about doing video while I’m here is envisioning transcribing all of the video and putting transcripts on your website.
We interviewed somebody today about the front yard. We’re building a pricing guide and an ROI calculator page. People might search on Google or ChatGPT: “How much does a front yard renovation cost in Dallas?”
Now you’re going to have rich content. When people get to the point of looking at you, you have the things that impact the sale — reviews. Every testimonial mentions reviews. They’re looking at your reviews, your photos, and now we have video of a real customer saying, “I hated my front yard. I hired Alterra. They got it done in three weeks,” and she literally won an award in her neighborhood.
That video can go on social media, YouTube, transcripts on your website. Video is one of the ultimate levers in marketing. But you’re doing it — and it’s uncomfortable to be on video. It’s uncomfortable to invest in marketing, which is why a lot of people don’t do it.
On the other side of the COVID wave, you’re going to need to market. The people who invest in their brand and video are going to have a huge advantage.
Why boots-on-the-ground content matters for landscape firms
Jeff: Yep. We believe that. That’s why we’re making the investment. We keep working together, improving the video, short reels, Instagram posts. You can see it in DFW — very competitive. The major firms are upping the marketing game like crazy. We used to see Instagram posts once a month, and now big firms are posting once a day.
Jack: We’re making professional video content — multiple cameras, lights, microphones, scripts — and that has its place. But I’m also advocating for what you’re starting to do: what I call “boots on the ground” content, where you show up, record on your phone, and post it. Simple: “Hey, we’re at this property today.”
Jeff: It feels awkward — taking a selfie video feels weird — but it’s a muscle. You use it, train yourself, and it gets easier.
Jack: It is a muscle. I was resisting doing it too. Then I literally wrote it into my job description. One of my accountabilities is to be the face of the company in public speaking and social media.
Jeff: There are three principals in our firm, and we’ve done that in the last 12 months. Part of what we’re expected to do is produce content. We create content every day — the question is, are we capturing it?
If you shift your thinking — you’re parking in front of a project, getting out of your truck, you have your phone anyway — are you going to capture any content while you’re there?
How Alterra uses ChatGPT to script and edit content
Jack: One thing I do to help me get it done is I use ChatGPT. When I get back into my truck after a shoot, I pull out the phone and talk to ChatGPT about what I did and say, “Help me write an Instagram post.”
For example: “Today I recorded a video at Alterra’s client’s house. They had a cool pool and artificial turf. They had pollinators and we recorded a podcast and it was fun.” Then I let it edit it for me and I review it.
My method is voice it, then edit. I have mine trained to write like me. But I often find the posts that are just “today I did this with this person” do well.
Jeff: We wrote the scripts for these videos a couple Fridays ago. The three of us — four of us — were in a conference room with ChatGPT pulled up. We threw in some outlines and it popped out scripts, and we edited and spent time.
I want to emphasize that because I think people skip the human review part. It’s like, “This sounds like garbage.” It’s good to get a rough draft, then edit.
Jack: Yeah — I always edit it. It’s a tool. You can’t let it run wild because it will embarrass you. But if you edit, it’s amazing. We did four days worth of work in four hours with ChatGPT.
Jeff: It is amazing. It’s bigger than email. It’s bigger than the internet. It’s a huge new phenomenon.
The future: autonomous robots and what’s next in landscaping
Jack: I think it is. I don’t think it’s as scary as folks make it out to be, but it’s huge for productivity. It’s come a long way in the last two or three years. In the next 10 years, I can’t imagine what we’ll see.
Jeff: It’s going to keep changing.
Jack: What will we be talking about in five years?
Jeff: Robot dogs. Robot planting — planting plants or loading trucks. I think there are going to be autonomous robots very soon doing things like painting, hanging drywall, planting plants.
Jack: Yeah, definitely. We’ll see.
Closing
Jack: Jeff, thanks for coming on The Landscaper’s Guide. It’s been fun.
Jeff: My pleasure. We love working with you guys. I’d recommend you highly to anybody that has a landscape firm that needs good digital marketing. Love getting to know y’all and working with you the last six or seven years.
Jack: You too. Thank you.
Jack (to camera): All right, everyone — thanks for watching The Landscaper’s Guide. If you’d like to have a conversation with us about your marketing, book a 15-minute marketing brainstorm call at landscapersguide.com/brainstorm, and we’ll help you figure out who is your “hell yes” customer and what kind of marketing you need to do to get more of them finding you. My name is Jack Justice, and I’ll look forward to talking with you next week on The Landscaper’s Guide.
Contact Alterra for your next landscaping or outdoor kitchen project – we’d love to chat!